ok, so the 580 still has higher Tesselatioin performance, and more raster ops (48)

i was expecting better..... this card won't bring down the price of the 580 at all.

1920 shaders, / 4 = 480 real shaders

this will compete with the GTX 570.

Cayman is 3 times stronger in Tesselation than HD5870 and twice polygons per clock than Barts and Cypress, also ROPS units offer twice performance than the last Gen, 96 texture units.

Texture units do not equate to performance without an increased texture filtering capability to go with it.

3x stronger then 5870 is still 2x weaker than GTX 580.

Lets wait for the true benchmarks in Dec 13.

Thanks for the slides, much appreciated!

k, the 570 will be out Dec 8th for testing against.

Yes because tessellation is very important. For tessellation heavy benchmarks.

tessellation pisses me off actually.

the difference in Heaven 2.1 was bs. most of the flat appearing textures could've been bump mapped to make them actually appear 3D rather then having shit stairs that look like a ramp.

So the actual difference in tessellation performance is of a lesser importance, no?

depends on how crappy the game developers are..... >.> throwing too much tesselation at shit you won't even see.

Bullshit... fp16 texturing goes at halfspeed on cypress with 80tmus while fullspeed on gf110 with 64 tmus. Where do you see that 3x?
http://techreport.com/articles.x/19934
Perhaps you are referring to rasterization rate... it is 2x of cypress in cayman and 4x in fermi so where do you see those numbers you post? Took them from your arse?
Another bullshit - 480 scalar shaders vs 4byte wide vector shaders? You must be mad...
Yeah... but that benchmark was made to advertise tesselation not parallax mapping.

The same I said about DX11 when ATI was first to push it out of the door - useless for now and only good for benchmarks.

Not a bad thing that ATI or Nvidia implement that, but the time and resources could have probably been better invested elsewhere.

mkey - pure tesselation is almost useless. Tesselation with displacement mapping done on domain (+geometry?) shaders costs much less than rendering detailed model right from start (something you can see in Endless City or new 3dmark 11)

There were multiple games that were already released with true DX11 support/features. Or coming out a week or so later. Saying it was useless is absurd.

Take a look at alien vs predator, bad company 2, battleforge (not that popular but one of the first), dirt 2 (bundled with most 58xx cards), metro 2033, stalker call of whatever. That's just a small sample of what I can think of off the top of my head.

something about nubers tha told before in this thred.......
check the f@cking benchs and then tell if gtx 580 is anyware near to 2x 5870 any bench any resolution the gap is around 23% for the gtx 580 against 5870 and that in NOT twise as fast IT IS 1/4 faster than 5870 or less.
And please dont forget the power draw/performance ratio.........

None of thoes games took enough advantage of DX11 to make any realistic difference, may as well just run em in DX10

Thank you sir, you saved me some flaming.

Unregistered, next time don't rely on what's on top of your head (I assume shit), dig in deeper.

Though there is more to D3D11 than tesselation.

HD5970 is still faster than GTX 580 overall performance, who needs tesselation when its not even implemented well enough now a days, and when it will be used most probably people will get a newer GPU than using the ones available now.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...TX_580/27.html

Cayman will be as strong as GTX580 in gaming, or maybe 5% faster, but it will be cheaper thats for sure.

the 580 does beat the 5970 in a few games though, which up to this point has never been the case with a single gpu card.

Honestly I wouldnt put too much weight into caymen being cheaper then 580, ati is starting to adopt a premium pricing scheme similar to nvidia's, if not worse in some cases

AMD share on CPU market is just 20% so even when their CPUs were outperforming those from Intel they had to keep lower price. However recently AMD has about same share of discrete GPU (both desktop and mobile) as NV ...so can't blame them for similar pricing scheme.

I can.

Well that is actually true, since HD5000 we had a raise in amd gpu´s prices, if nvidia does things right we can expect lower prices in both ends.

nvidia are waiting on Cayman for the price ways to begin. They actually have room to move with the GF110 core so even the top end should be a price war.

Agreed, they are being pathetic little bitches.

OMG, does this mean you admit ATI can build competitive hardware (even if that means multiple GPUs and does ruin the point of having a flagship)?

I've never said they couldn't, but the hardware is crippled with poor drivers and an even poorer customer and developer relationship.

Well, this is exactly what I found to complement nicely with low prices. Maybe now they are ready to invest something in support.

AMD has practically spat in the face of its users since it demoted Terry Makedon to a pr position.

I dislike Terry, i think he is the one responsible for making Catalyst Sucks so bad.

I like AMD products, but i am getting tired of all the issues the Catalyst bring each new version, i wish AMD invest much much more into the Driver division, but hey! ever since AMD fuse with ATi the drivers have become much much better, that is a fact.

unless you have some semblance of an idea of catalyst development history..........


...eh.. no they got worse.

No they did not... it's like sine wave... some versions are state of art with +1, some are ugliest possible with -1... and the rest of them (-1;1) with 2 zeroes per period And... yeah, nv is just slightly shifted... but get same values... sometimes the best of the best, sometimes run for your lives (or check if fan speed control is working ^^)

I think you're right Promilus, ATI/AMD drivers are getting better, but with Nvidia's the version that stopped the fan and caused the card to overheat, That happened ONCE, I haven't heard of any problems since. Everybody makes mistakes. So you learn and don't repeat it.

Well after looking at all the reviews I still don't see nvidia as top dog with to many losses to the 5870 single gpu vs single gpu in a lot of games and the only real large margin in any of the games tested is metro 2033. That doesn't look like a winner to me after considering the 5970 still reigns supreme as of now. Nvidia promised big numbers with the gtx 480 and it just got renamed and fixed as the gtx 580. Feels just like that one thing called the I7980x wait a minute it looks just like the I9 in every single aspect with none of the promised performance. The big dog's getting way to relaxed and this small little company is coming up with some pretty bad ass innovations and rapidly progressing hardware. I would not be shocked to see amd/ati leading the way next year gpu and cpu. Thanks for reading and there are lot of fan boys that just need to do there fucking home work.

only complete jackoff's compare a pos dual gpu card to a top of the line single gpu.

even if the 5800/5900 series didn't have quality flaws in its filtering, i still wouldn't get a pos dual gpu card.

I agree that ATI/AMD is moving up in the world since 5000 series, I have been a Nvidia user for a long time, I think ATI/AMD hardware is amazing, just wish they would spend their earnings hiring a kick ass driver development team that's dedicated to making quality drivers to compliment that good hardware. I like where the company's going. And yeah Nvidia has been resting on their laurels, BUT the GTX 580 is more than just fixed and renamed GTX 480, They fixed it,Fully enabled it,(all the SP's),and optimized it more for games, GTX 480 was a do everything card.They added the vapour chamber cooling which brought the thermals down by like 20c, and it runs way quieter. AMD 6970 get's 36 FPS in the heaven benchmark, Nvidia GTX 580 get's 44 FPS. I know it's a synthetic test but usually the card will perform even better than that in real world games.

4k series did well also.

Maybe take the scores from some other non tessellation heavy benchmark tool?

Yes mkey 4000 series was good also.

AMD 6870 Crossfire should give us an idea of the performance that the 6970 will bring...

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...roduction.html

dont shit on dual gpus just because nvidia dosnt have them at the end of the day numbers is what matters and thats what the daul gpus have

So, except in COD and New Vegas, 6970 will be a better card?

unlikely, the component allocations put it against the 570 at best.... and then taking ATI's drivers and low quality AF into account.......

Squall, What is meant by component allocations?

Here's some interesting stuff...



Here's the explanation...

Like the part with the slide, he talks about 20W + or - on the performance, he completely FAILS there.
The -20 to 20 slider is a %, you can adjust the power of your card in the overdrive tab by 20% up or down.
the 250W is the maximum board consumption, but the non-OC power consumption is 190/200W.
Cayman can actually clock almost as flexible as any modern CPU, so it can run at 650 MHz or 800 MHz during benchmarking if you enable Powertune

oh great, more useless features that can burn idiots cards.

In relation to the link that was posted above

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...roduction.html

mkey, they addressed part of the banding problem, but from what independent sites are seeing it returns at random on distance textures.

Theres also the shimmering which has been noted...but worse and something i've not seen anyone else pick up on is the way samples distort at the edge of the 16x depth.

Squall what is banding, and shimmering?

shimmering is where stationary textures appear to shimmer as you move across them, moving diagonally is usually the worst case.

Banding is where there is a visible difference between the sample levels of one texture to another, it can manifest as visible colour differences of in the case of grey stepping its a hard change from one level of grey to the next instead of blending gradually into the next level.

Thanks for the info Squall, you almost have me convinced of buying a Nvidia GTX 580, considering all these issues the AMD cards have, I have used mainly Nvidia cards in the past, but was hoping that the AMD 6970 was going to give the 580 a run for it's money in terms of performance, but it doesn't look like it's going to, I'll wait 3 more days just to see how it does in the benchies, but most likely go for the 580. Also i read a user review who had 2 6870's in crossfire but switched to the GTX 580 and said although the crossfired 6870's provide higher framerates, the GTX 580 provides a smoother and more consistent gameplay experience.

Squall you might find this review amusing...

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...13177&Itemid=8