Again I want to thank GenL on making this patch! Some of us only did some minor testing but he did all the work. Thanks again!!

no but microsoft could if they ever decided to disable driver testing mode.

Great work GenL! Stick it to the man!!

I love it when people stand up to corrupt company's like this. Its really sad that nvidia did this to people they just hurt them self's. there probably just to plain stupid to see it. GenL keep up the good work Im sure a lot of people will appreciate it. I would not be shocked if Microsoft did disable driver testing mode but if they do I hope people stand up and do something like this to over come it. I just got to say this (IN YOUR FACE NVIDIA) lol

Nice work. Fuck of Nvidia, lol

This should be declared the antinvidia day.

Morons, Nvidia just protects their rightfully owned property. How would you like if you invested millions and then see scumbags (and who claim to be "moraliy" right lol... pathetic) take advantage of your invested money and tech.

Nvidia just protects their rightfully owned property? Would you mind explaining me why Ageia PhysX PPU is no longer working on systems powered by Radeon cards? I don’t remember they ever mentioned any kind of Radeon restriction in the minimum requirements.

If I bought Nike shoes and I would like to wear it with Adidas socks - I have the right to do so. If I bought an Nvidia card and I would like to use it only for PhysX rendering – I should have the right to do so as well. They never mentioned these new restrictions anywhere. They can't tell us something like: "You can't wear Nike shoes with Adidas socks".

Protecting your property is one thing. Taking an illegal and unfair advantage of your property to abuse consumers and to blacklist your competitor is another thing. As long as you have an Nvidia card, you should have access to their PhysX technology no matter what. Nvidia doesn’t have any right to come up with such abusive behavior.

Nobody is "taking advantage" of anything here. Customers who PAID for their Nvidia hardware can no longer utilize it for Physx if they upgrade their primary card to ATI (Nvidia says 'competitor' but there is no competitor but ATI). Nvidia is simply attempting to secure additional sales in the event the competitor releases a superior product (which has just happened... go figure). Nvidia is now worried that users will jump ship and buy the new ATI card while demoting their current Nvidia GPU, which they paid for, to Physx processing duties rather than purchase a new Nvidia card demoting their current, PAID FOR, Nvidia card to Physx processing. Key words here... PAID FOR. So now it's 'morally' correct to screw your customers unless they continue to give you money rather than allow them to use the original product with the original features they paid for.

Anyone who can't see through the PR muck here is flat out an IDIOT.

Here's the worst case scenario for Nvidia should they proceed in this direction.

Let's say that ATI continues to dominate the GPU scene for the next two years (likely less) while Nvidia scrambles to keep up all the while denying paying customers the ability to run Physx. Physx will, with absolute certainty, be dead within those two years because marketshare for performance products, what gamers crave, will shift heavily in ATI's favor and as such, nobody will give one good God damn f_ck about Physx anymore, since they can't run it anyways. Havoc will take the lead. No question.

Alternatively, Nvidia could allow Physx processing while an ATI card is present and continue to sell hardware (albiet far less) due to the Physx processing capabilities. This will provide the much needed revenue to continue R&D in effort to retake the performance market.

If Nvidia's PR and marketing team can't see this and truly think the majority of us are stupid enough to swallow the gibberish they feed us, well then good luck to them, they'll need it.

-Bill (who for the record uses only Nvidia hardware.. I only speak the truth)

Yeah, we're morons here. lol

And when you insult people, mind your spelling, dumbass.

I wonder why AMD is not suing these bastards.

Because they don't care? If they sued, it would give some significance to physx, something physx just doesn't have.

Either way it was wrong what Nvidia did. People bought their cards, and to disable a feature because an ATI card is present was anti-competetive to say the least. What if they have an ATi board with integrated graphics that can't be shut off? Or an All in wonder card just to use the TV tuner? I don't think Nvidia thought this all the way through.
Nvidia at onetime was a great company. But they need new leadership or they are going to end up in a world of finanical hurt. Especially if the GT300 chips fail to deliver consistantly.

yet another reason why buying nvidia is deplorable

good job mates!

PPU owners should sue them.

I would not be surprised if some company like ATi or Intel "help" some of them do just that.

I see no one mentioned that this is SOP for MS

i got a old physx card and ati cards, ive been vondering why the physx didnt work , now i know

since all of you are stupid fanATIcs and many times you said that physx is useless and not important why do you care?
cut the bul...it !!!

It is a litle crazy world, that spins around money.

lol another braindead Nvidia fanboy. Go kiss some Nvida butt. YOU are the reason why they behave the way they do with their customers.

Wow, ive been watching GenL's progress since day 1. This is indeed a breakthrough. Thanks a lot for this GenL and keep it up!!!

NVIDIA = nvidiot
expensive, a lot of style...!!!

Im getting tired of that FANboism wars you put out in all possible physx threads guys.
It wont change anything , both Ati and nVidia will continue to do how they do.

I droped the bithin long time ago, a waste of energy even thinking about it.

You guys are idiots,you go on like AMD/ATI loves you,and they let you buy their cards out of kindness in their hearts.AMD would have done exactly the same if they could have and you are deluding yourself thinking otherwise."Stick it to the man" lol,AMD are driven by profit as is Nvidia,theyre not some kind of gentle Robin Hood company that steals from the rich and gives to the poor.You all act like they care about you personally ,like theyre going to show up at your house for coffee or something.They want your money and you eat it up like the moronic Fanboys you are and think that you have made the moral choice when buying amd/ati instead of evil intel/nvidia.Pathetic,i bet you would sacrifice a lamb in their honor if you could,at your little AMD altar

Thanks again GenL for your patch. The best thing nVidia could do to support PhysX is allowing their cards to work with ATI cards. If they keep limiting it, PhysX will be dead as soon as developers start to use open physics engines.

Which developer would want to use a hardware accelerated physics engine that only works on 60-65% of the market, if there is another engine that works on 100%?. Unless paid by nVidia, of course.

Can we start a different thread for Genl's Physx on PPU/ATi card systems project please...kind of losing track whats happening on this thread.

Oh, another cretin that must have a crystal ball that foretells the future/alternate realities, would you be so kind to share some lottery numbers with us?

And what about my hard earned cash that went into my PPU, which now doesn't work due to me having an ATI video card? THAT is crap..and theft, unless they want to buy my PPU back ??

Great job on the 'fix' - only thing that makes sense is nVidia is trying to get press for the phsyx crap - using the any press is good press bit.

MS? never seen or heard of them locking their software down so it doesn't work if other software is intalled... or hardware - that sounds like some OTHER OS company.. can't remember the name kinda small company not worth mentioning.. Pear?... Orange?? Banana?? something like that anyways....

its not fanboyism when its true.

Fact: AMD have failed to maintain an active developer network.
Fact: AMD have failed to address critical driver faults.
Fact: AMD are the ones that refused PhysX.

Fact: All the idiots are still thinking OpenCL can be better then CUDA, even though nvidia's propietary pushing of the CUDA arch allows for faster development and improvement. CUDA has C++ now ffs, OpenCL doesn't.

FACT
ATI, Good hardware, bad support, drivers that have crippling flaws in the Dx and Ogl texture standards, has Execs that like to bitch when they themselves drop the ball. (Infact, it took ATI to get to 9.9 to fix Flickering in MCM2 on Win7.... and thats not even an accelerated section of the game just the menu)
Nvidia, Good hardware, good support, texture formats are supported to the letter, Driver bugs are usually rare, and mostly isolated to out of spec cards (nvidia maintains a set of timings in the drivers which can cause issues with pre o/c boards), Execs only bitch when they are bitched at. older games have issues with 16bpp dithering, but nothing that hooking the texture format and forcing 32bpp can't fix.

Both vendors have 8bit palette issues in Win7 with Ddraw games, but with nvidia chips it can be worked around with compatibility settings most often, while ATI requires the end tasking of explorer.exe.

ATI: Minimal control over game quality.
Nvidia: Profile per game allowing you to adjust quality and even allowing you to enable AA on games which don't typically support AA otherwise due to nonstandard rendering techniques or DFR.

ATI: making fanboys jiz their pants by showing off a 6 screen tech that only people as rich as bill gates can actually manage to use.
Nvidia: Pissing off noobs by creating a mock up of Fermi and only telling people after the conference was over.

ATI: Microsofts Whores.
Nvidia: Maintains Innovation, and actually drives the Graphic Industry.

Many people don't seem to realise that without nvidia and opengl, many of today's techniques would not have been adopted into DirectX, S3TC for instance.... known as DXTC in DirectX

FUCK nVidia!

Fanboys tend to lose objectivity and instead of protecting consumers, they protect corporations. I saw many fanboy comments on many sites – defending Nvidia for their “business move”. It makes me sick.

unless you count the fact that MSFT at one point didn't support installation on EFI based systems.....

Hmm... no "fanboyism" showing through in that first one. Nope. None at all.

S3TC did not come from nvidia. It came from S3. Making an argument about a company's "techniques" and innovation while referencing a technology developed by a completely different company definitely gave me a good laugh this morning though! Thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Texture_Compression

Your grasp on history shows what a douche you are.
S3 might have created it, however it was nvidia that pushed for its adoption into the OpenGL standard and for it to be used with DX.

squall_leonhart wrote:
"Fact: AMD are the ones that refused PhysX."
Why would AMD put in resources to support a product that is controlled by their largest competitor, who can (and which they now shown) at anytime simply turn it off... Makes no sense at all.


"Fact: All the idiots are still thinking OpenCL can be better then CUDA, even though nvidia's propietary pushing of the CUDA arch allows for faster development and improvement. CUDA has C++ now ffs, OpenCL doesn't."
Intel, AMD, and Nvidia all support OpenCL, only NVidia supports "C for CUDA". The company I work for was an early adopter of CG shading language, and I can tell you that we wont to do the same mistake of going with a vendor specific language/API again.

squall, language please.

Stops the emo whiny b****ing that seems to spew from ATI's execs

CG Shading did what Microsofts API at the time could not.
Khronos has only recently (like August recently) started working on C++ for OpenCL.

Secondly.
Its not Proprietary once more then the people who own it are supporting it.

I was going to email Numbvidia to complain about them incapacitating my Ageia PPU but can't even find an email address for them......show how much they value customer opinion.

You know, games should not have any vendor-specific features. Nvidia pays to developers to make them include nvidia-specific features like PhysX, also they want ads at the streets (Bionic Commando, Burnout Paradise etc).

Nvidia lies too much. They don't tell you that your fresh Core i7 can handle PhysX as fast as their mid-end cards if they'd keep original optimizations by Ageia engineers.
They don't tell you that your nvidia GPU/ageia PPU will be useless if you will go non-green.

They lying to press regarding their new chip (telling it was real, telling they don't have problems with production)

I'd say that nvidia became a lying marketing machine. And i don't think something would change my mind.

So why they don't want to support all features of WDDM 1.1, blocking their card from running on hybrid configurations? I thought they are fans of hybrid configurations like these and like CPU+GPGPU (OMG intel/amd!) clusters. Is it a part of their "innovation" plan?

They said once that dx10.1 doesn't matter, but now they are readying dx10.1 GPUs. Thanks to their money, we were unable to play Assassin's Creed with dx10.1. Deleting dx10.1 support is a path to innovation too?

Its execution is limited by hardware vendor of GPU... and you are calling it "not proprietary"?

They are just helping ATI keep to its stance of "We don't want no damn PhysX".

That was never proven, and the developers are on record saying it was removed as there was to much that had to be changed in order for the Dx10.1 path to work (which it never did, there were effects missing.)

DirectX 10.1 is a joke. anyone who's ever rendered a sprite can see that easily. Especially when Nvidia can already pull off 100% Dx10.1 capability using Driver level work arounds such as GBuffer multipass.

submit it using the nvidia FaQ site or the vista improvement survey thing.

"Stops the emo whiny b****ing that seems to spew from ATI's execs"
Are you serious?..
What company would have taken the decision to go with a non standard API that is fully under the control of the main competitior (who does not even make any substantial profit on the API but on the hardware they sell)?

"CG Shading did what Microsofts API at the time could not."
Yes, the reason why we at the time choose to go with CG was that there was no good alternative. This time I think Khronos (and Microsoft) got in to the game before NVidia got enough dominance to counter the drawback (from a developers point of view) of vendor lock-in.

"Khronos has only recently (like August recently) started working on C++ for OpenCL."
And C++ is the silver bullet?
The importance of C++ on GPUs will in the beginning be marginal at the best, and AFAIK only Fermi (and of course Larrabee) supports C++ and neither is on the market yet.


"Secondly.
Its not Proprietary once more then the people who own it are supporting it."
Please elaborate!

lmao squall_leonhart is fanboy saying oohh poor nvidia...

ppl paid good money for physx feature and got ripped off

Paying money for physx, indicates people are morons.
Its only proprietary while nvidia are the only ones using it, once it gets leased to another software/hardware corp it becomes no different to AMD licensing the SSE extensions from Intel.

Which... btw, i have not heard anyone crying like a baby, because AMD only has the licensing rights to 10% of SSE4 atm.

We all know what would have happened if ATi had agreed to use CUDA.....Nvidia being the owner would alter it not only to optimise for their architecture but also to make it work less well on ATi cards and so give themselves a market advantage.....they could not be trusted to play fair as they have proven with the latest physx driver episode.....no it is far better that an independent committee such as Khronos oversees this.

Thanks guys

Nv against ATI?! it is Nv against customers.

Many thanks for the patch, great work.
I detest fan boys; they detract from the point at hand.
This is immoral and bad business practice

You guys are overanalyzing all this shit way too much

bottom line is nvidia doesnt give a shit about its customers or 'innovation' only their profit margin, ATI right now is just trying to survive they have a huge debt and nvidia is determined to sink them by brining out all sorts of propriety BS to get gamers to abandon ati while ati actually seems to be trying to bring out some open standards.

Thats all there is to it, fuck nvidia. <-period.

Impossible, actually.
Licensing grants ATI protection against this.
CUDA is just an API within the Driver, that makes use of the hardware present, so if ATI licensed rights to cuda it would be allowed to adapt it where required to attain maximal performance on their hardware.

Knowing ATI though, nvidia would make a major update to the api and ATI users wouldn't see it till 12 months later.

Exactly why ATI needs to stop crying like little girls and get their hands dirty.
Its one thing to make hardware to play games, but its entirely another thing to support the hardware to play games.

No wonder why Nvidia come up with stuff like this... brainwashed dudes like Jack, psfer, squell support them...

I dont disagree with you there, they need to start pushing the hardware and supporting developers more, throw some money and get their logo on some games while working with developers to get them utilizing their hardware, hell I dont think Ive seen the ATI logo on a game since roller coaster tycoon 3.

On the contrary rather than ATi getting involved Nvidia should be stopped.....they are using their substantial financial advantage to influence games developers and so disadvantage ATi....it is anti competetive.

There are too much things which were never proven about nvidia doings, don't you think?
You'll say that Batman limiting AA on non-nvidia cards is also not a proven issue? Who really needs a proofs while everything is already can be seen between lines?
Nvidia says:I say: nvidia made developers to add a check like:
Am i wrong?

According to fudzilla (based on nvidia response, i believe):
I say: they were like "Damn let's find some reason to make them shut up about fake Fermi already!"
Am i wrong?

You can ask proofs of these, but maybe then we will ask proofs of every single "fact" you posted here?
It's so easy to speculate with facts, but should you really go this far just to exonerate actions of someone who lies a lot?

The thing is that the manufacturers need to support the developers, especially to keep pc gaming afloat, and they know that without PC gaming they are boned, nvidia is especially screwed if pc gaming takes a nosedive as ATI still has some foothold in the console market which is probably why nvidia is so much more aggressive in throwing money at developers, no games means no one needs video cards.

I dont dissagree that nvidia needs to stop sabotaging ATI, the two companies would do much better if they co-oprated, but ATI needs to start spending more money supporting developers and getting their hardware used by them, nvidia's "The way its ment to be played" campaign is probably the single biggest reason they are #1 in sales, if ATI brough their logo to a few games they might see some more people taking interest