Main Menu
» Home
» News
» Forums
» Articles
» Files
» Blogs
» Chat
» Search
» Register
» User CP
» Screenshots
» Disclaimer
» Submit News
» News Archive
» Contact Us
Follow Us
» Facebook
» Twitter
» Newsletter
» RSS Feed

AMD Senior Manager Critizies Nvidia's TWIMTBP Program
Posted by Regeneration on September 30th, 2009, 12:02 AM

AMD's Ian McNaughton (Senior manager of advanced marketing) has posted the following in his blog: "AMD prides itself on supporting open standards and our goal is to advance PC gaming regardless whether people purchase our products.

Unfortunately, not everyone shares our philosophy. Nvidia has recently sampled some newly released The Way it is Meant to be Played titles, including Batman: Arkham Asylum, to press in hopes that they would use these titles to benchmark against the HD Radeon 5870 and 5850. There are some known issues with these proprietary TWIMTBP titles.

Batman: Arkham Asylum
In this game, Nvidia has an in-game option for AA, whereas, gamers using ATI Graphics Cards are required to force AA on in the Catalyst Control Center.

The advantage of in-game AA is that the engine can run AA selectively on scenes whereas Forced AA in CCC is required to use brute force to apply AA on every scene and object, requiring much more work.

Additionally, the in-game AA option was removed when ATI cards are detected. We were able to confirm this by changing the ids of ATI graphics cards in the Batman demo. By tricking the application, we were able to get in-game AA option where our performance was significantly enhanced. This option is not available for the retail game as there is a secure rom.

To fairly benchmark this application, please turn off all AA to assess the performance of the respective graphics cards. Also, we should point out that even at 2560×1600 with 4x AA and 8x AF we are still in the highly playable territory …

Need for Speed: Shift
In another TWIMTBP title, we submitted a list of issues that we discovered during the games’ development. These issues include inefficiencies in how the game engine worked with our hardware in addition to real bugs, etc.. We have sent this list to the developer for review. .

Unfortunately you will be unable to get a fair playing experience with our hardware until the developer releases a patch to address and fix our reported issues.

Resident Evil 5
AMD was unable to receive builds of this game early enough to get a chance to test and address any open issues. We will work with the developer to test and adjust any compatibility or performance issues that we encounter."

I'd like to reply to Ian: All of this can be easily avoided by providing better treatment to game developers (support, hardware, personal attention). The word on the street is… Nvidia is very generous with developer support – unlike AMD. That’s why so many developers stick to the TWIMTBP label… it’s just… good business. Another alternative would be an antitrust lawsuit against Nvidia.

Last edited by Regeneration; September 30th, 2009 at 01:50 AM..

7 Comments
I like the first suggestion.

If they worked with Developers to improve both the games AND THEIR DRIVERS, alot of the issues that I personally have with ATI's software side of things would be appeased.
Quote
I agree, a little support to the developers goes along way, so does having solid drivers. I will say that a developer who codes in hardware "hooks" into their games and apps only hurt the end user. Im not a fan of either companies mud slinging and if there was a 3rd option that didnt suck ass Id use them instead. The way I see it right now ATI has the console market on lock so they shouldnt be too upset that NVIDIA is doing well on the PC front.
Quote
The problem I have with TWIMTBP program is exactly these kind of hooks inserted into games, disabling functionality for competitors even if it might work just because the competitor didn't pay off the developer as well.

Make no mistake this is a payoff to the developer whether it was in the form of cash or engineering work it's still a payoff, and as a gamer I think it stinks. I get screwed depending on which brand I've chosen and which developers that brand decides to payoff. If I play a lot of games the chances of me getting screwed increases as no brand can afford to pay off all developers so many games will be exclusive to a brand, just like Batman.

Nvidia 'probably' didn't outright ask for the developer of Batman to do this, but I believe the developer felt pressure to do so because of the TWIMTBP program.

Sometime ATI wins this type of battle and sometimes Nvidia wins, the only consistent loser in these types of things is the gamers themselves.

James
Quote
Its not a hook you moron.

Hooks are hacks, hacks are injected or patched into the app.

Dedicated code paths are used to prevent Issue where hardware features have not been tested in many applications, or to disable functions that would otherwise kill the performance and its been used in thousands of games.

Hell...... when it comes to developing you ALWAYS need dedicated ATI code paths because ATI's drivers are a fucking nightmare.
Quote
well.. ati sure does complain a lot... i dont hear nvidia complaining!


THe hd5770 Benchies are out!
same performance as the gtx260 \ 275 and similar performance to the oldie HD4890...

maybe their drivers will improve... still i am not impressed at all!

check it here:
http://en.hardspell.com/doc/enshowcont.asp?id=7131
Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by squall_leonhart View Post
Its not a hook you moron.

Hooks are hacks, hacks are injected or patched into the app.

Dedicated code paths are used to prevent Issue where hardware features have not been tested in many applications, or to disable functions that would otherwise kill the performance and its been used in thousands of games.

Hell...... when it comes to developing you ALWAYS need dedicated ATI code paths because ATI's drivers are a fucking nightmare.
Huh? Hooks are pieces of code a programmer can call or execute from other pieces of code in an exe or dll. If a hook exists why would you need to inject code to hack it. Just use the existing hook. Maybe the terminology taught differs but the concept is the same.

As to the moron comment, well apparently it takes one to know one.

Also good job on ignoring the content of the post and picking something unrelated to harp on and throw in a personal attack to boot. Color me impressed.

James
Quote
Same issue with Borderlands.
Quote

 

Quick Reply
Message:
Your Username: Click here to log in

Options

LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.ngohq.com/news/16519-amd-senior-manager-critizies-nvidias-twimtbp-program.html
Borderlands - Page 28 - Rage3D Discussion Area This thread Refback November 19th, 2009 10:18 PM
Need for Speed SHIFT Gameplay Performance and IQ - Page 3 - [H]ard|Forum This thread Refback November 16th, 2009 05:16 PM
 





eXTReMe Tracker

Copyright © NGOHQ.com - All rights reserved
Reproduction in whole or in part in any form or medium
without written permission of the site's owners is prohibited.
Powered by vBadvanced and vBulletin from Jelsoft
Copyright © 2000-2007 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2

Contact Us - Archive - NGOHQ.com - NGOHQ.org - NGOHQ.net - Disclaimer - Top